Sex In The Public Square - Conversations with - Comments

Jump into the Porn Studies forum -- bring friends :)

Elizabeth — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:26:24 -0800

Amber, I'm so sorry you missed the conversation! The rest of us -- and certainly Tristan any time she feels like dropping in -- can continue it in the Porn Studies forum, though. Bring friends! I've been thinking I want to discuss Audacia's post from a few weeks back responding to the questions about whether some kinds of porn or some kinds of sex, by extension, are more feminist than others.

A narrow window

Amber Rhea — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:27:00 -0800

So Elizabeth, yes, we are the same age. I never had wild, unprotected sex, then had to adjust and learn how to have safer sex, like people who are older than us, and, unfortunately, younger. That really does make a difference I think in the way we conceptualize safer sex.

Same here. But honestly I think I made it into a narrow window of time, AND was just lucky to be the type of person who was always into educating myself (because as far as sex was concerned, the schools in the part of Georgia where I grew up sure as hell weren't doing it). It makes me sad and nervous for teenagers today, and I just hope things get better.

Aw shucks. Well, NOW I see

Amber Rhea — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:25:07 -0800

Aw shucks. Well, NOW I see Tristan's request for me to come chat here... after the fact. Damn! Thanks anyway. And of course I am ALWAYS ready and willing to talk about sex, porn, and all that good stuff.

Thank you Tristan!

Elizabeth — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:42:03 -0800

I want to say a big "Thank You" to Tristan Taormino for participating in this week long conversation about Chemistry 3, and about porn more generally. Thanks also to TracyA, Richard Newman, and Amber Rhea for joining in. It was a more interesting conversation because of your participation!

I'm going to close this thread for comments after tonight because I don't think Tristan will be joining us regularly as we move forward, but I'd love to suggest that any who are interested continue this conversation in the new Porn Studies forum. There's a thread there called "Continuation of the conversation we started with Tristan Taormino". And if you're logged in feel free to add forum threads that you're interested in!

Male bodies in heterosexual porn

Richard Jeffrey Newman — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:38:04 -0800

Tristan Taormino said:

Visually, in the majority of porn, men are literally CUT OUT of the frame, and they are reduced to an erection only. We never see the rest of their bodies, let alone their faces while they are fucking. I love to see an expression wash over someone's face as they experience pleasure, and for men, those images are never included in scenes.

This is, I think, such an important point! As is the way Elizabeth asked the question. It may be true that mainstream heterosexual video pornography is, generally, even primarily, about the pleasure of the male gzae, the pleasure to be had from "gazing" as a man, but the actual male bodies represented in that pornography are rarely portrayed as experiencing physical pleasure. Some years ago, when I was writing on porn, it seemed to me that this was because the videos are structured so that the male viewer identifies with what the man on the screen is doing, not what he is feeling--because to identify with what he is feeling moves too far in the direction of homoeroticism, i.e., it would require the male viewer to eroticize the male body on the screen.

One of the sites I wrote about when I was doing this research is a horribly misogynist reality porn site called bangbus. In one of the videos I downloaded, though, there was a scene in which a woman was giving a man a blowjob that was shot in such a way that you could see not just the man's erection, and the woman's head and mouth as she worked on him, but his face as well. It was a remarkable moment for me because it was the first time--and I had watched a lot of porn by then--that I had ever seen a blowjob shot from that angle. Then, at some point, the guy holding the camera changed position and the viewers view of the blowjob became entirely conventional: the man's hard-on, the woman's head, and so all you got was her ostensible pleasure in giving the blowjob. The man's physical pleasure was suddenly entirely absent from the frame.

None of the other videos on bangbus that I watched or downloaded had a similar shot in them; neither did any of the other amateur or reality porn sites or videos that I looked at. In other words, while the porn may have been called amateur, it was amateur only because the people making it were not professional performers. There did not seem to me to be any essential difference between the way the "amateur" sex was presented and the way sex is presented in most mainstream heterosexual porn. This made me wonder about the degree to which the people who produce porn--and perhaps even the people who watch it--internalize the norms of the way sex is represented in porn such that those norms become the conventions that govern the way those people have sex in their off-screen lives. At the time, this was just an idle thought, a question that I thought would be interesting to try but ultimately impossible to answer in any authoritative way, but it occurred to me again reading this interview because of a comment Tristan made--that I can't find now--about how the performers in her videos sometimes assume the positions they are used to assuming in the regular videos they make, ones that look good for the camera but that are uncomfortable to maintain, and how these positions are in many ways explicitly not what Tristan is looking for.

It is, I suppose, not a terribly original insight (and it is one that is made by anti-porn critics all the time), but it does seem to me important to bring into this kind of discussion of porn the ways in which porn engenders, or at least might engender, the kinds of sex people have, think they can have, should have, might want to have, etc. Not to point out the evils of bad porn, or that porn itself is bad/evil, but to explore the notion that, precisely because the images in porn have an effect on people's sexual imaginations, and because porn is, after all, only one kind of sexual representation and is very much not divorced from the other kinds of sexual representation out in the culture, we deserve (and I do mean deserve) porn that engages the humanity inherent in our sexual imaginations. And that means--and here is the hard part--being honest about what that imagination contains.

This was a wonderful interview and a wonderful discussion. Thanks for putting it up, Elizabeth, and thanks Tristan for being willing to have it.

transplant more intimate than sex

tracya — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:20:24 -0800

i know transplant has much higher exchange of tissue and cells but as a transplant nurse...i wanted to point out that HIV+ and hep C can be transmitted without a positive test

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/health/13cnd-organ.html?em&

Four transplant recipients in Chicago have contracted H.I.V. from an organ donor, the first known cases in more than a decade of the virus being spread by organ transplants.

The organs also gave all four patients hepatitis C, in what health officials said was the first reported instance of the two viruses being spread simultaneously by a transplant.

Though exceedingly rare, this type of transmission highlights a known weakness in the system for checking organ donors for infection: the most commonly used tests can fail to detect viral diseases if they are performed too early in the course of the infection. Officials say the events in Chicago may lead to widespread changes in testing methods.

it's a terrible shame that STI's brings a negativity to sexual conduct...i enjoyed your discussion with eliazbeth about becoming sexually active in the age of condoms/safe sex. myself being a little older, condoms were always assocaited with prevention of pregnancy not STI's...and that could be solved with the pill.

i agree that the scare of HIV has diminished over time and is seen as more of a chronic illness, which no doubt will lead to complacency, unsafe practice and an increase in STI's

my original question was about the size of mens cocks....do you have try outs, screen and choose male actor's for your films based on size, ability to maintain an erection, charisma....combination???

is it easier to cast men or women???

STI Rates

TristanTaormino — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:41:11 -0800

Adult Industry Medical Healthcare Foundation, aka AIM, (http://www.aim-med.org) is the central agency which tests and keeps track of every performer. I spoke to the director, Sharon Mitchell, just recently for a Village Voice column I wrote on the subject (see http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0737,taormino,77775,24.html). HIV rates are drastically lower in the porn population than in the general population. Mitchell says porn stars have a lot more sexual partners yet get fewer STDs compared to others in the same age group. According to her, AIM tests about 2000 people each month, and only 2.8% test positive for an STD. That’s well below comparable national rates: in the U.S., about 22% of people aged 15-24 get an STD each year. (The CDC groups 15-19 year olds and 20-24 year olds. The majority of porn stars are 18-24, which overlaps two age categories.) Mitchell says AIM has treated about 25-30% of performers for HPV and now vaccinates both women and men with the HPV vaccine. Probably the biggest issue is herpes. 90% of Americans have been exposed to HSV-1 (the virus that causes most cases of oral herpes) and more than one in five Americans are infected with genital herpes (most often caused by HSV-2). Mitchell estimates that about 50% of performers have either HSV-1 or HSV-2. Other industry insiders say it's more like 90% (just based on their experience.) Because one can transmit the virus without having any symptoms, it's difficult for even the most scrupulous performers to detect. Lots and lots of them are on Valtrex, which is supposed to suppress the virus, but that doesn't necessarily prevent transmission.

Slipping through the cracks

Elizabeth — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:50 -0800

Tristan, do you know how effective the testing program is at reducing STI risks for performers? Is there data on rates of STis among porn performers and are those rates higher or lower than the rate for the general population? I'd be curious. I can see where constant awareness of ones status could result in STI rate for performers that is lower than the rate for people in general (who don't get tested nearly so regularly).

Yes

TristanTaormino — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 15:59:17 -0800

So Elizabeth, yes, we are the same age. I never had wild, unprotected sex, then had to adjust and learn how to have safer sex, like people who are older than us, and, unfortunately, younger. That really does make a difference I think in the way we conceptualize safer sex. I am thinking about a new strategy to make my sets safer, and that is to require that performers have a test that is less than 15 days old instead of 30. Some performers already have this as a personal policy. I heard one performer/director insists on a 3 day old test for all people she personally has sex with. People can still slip through the cracks, but I think it would decrease the chances of STD transmission. Of course, I will probably have to pay for the tests (which are over $100 each); right now, performers pay for their own tests. But I think it's worth it in the long run.

Age and latex-orientation

Elizabeth — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:07:26 -0800

We probably are about the same age. I'm 36. No secret about it. Born at the end of 1970, came of age sexually during the beginning of the AIDS crisis. "And the Band Played On" was probably my favorite book during my first year of college. Safer sex workshops were cool and fun and relatively easy to find. I attended at least two college-approved safer sex events. One was a sex toy "show and tell". I lived in a city with a great feminist sex toy shop where I could attend workshops and demonstrations, all of which eroticized safer sex. Completely different experience from that of a friend of mine, about 20 years ahead of me, who was telling me that when she was developing her sexuality condoms were a sign of distrust and that she never did learn to like them. She probably had the same visceral sense of "ickyness" the first time she used one that I had the first time I didn't!

As for gloves, well, they're even better. The smoothness of latex is an amazing thing!

Amber rules!

Elizabeth — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:54:31 -0800

Off topic but just wanted to say that I'm totally excited to be headed to Atlanta in April for Sex 2.0 where I'll get to meet Amber for the first time face to face. She's put together an amazing looking "unconference"!

Amber's Here!

TristanTaormino — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:11:33 -0800

Thanks so much for the thoughtful review, Amber. Come back and chat with us here!

Latex

TristanTaormino — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:09:59 -0800

Elizabeth, we must be around the same age, because when I became sexually active, safer sex was a big part of my sex life, too. Condoms, gloves, and dental dams were just another part of sex, so I am with you. I don't see them as "barriers" as some others do. I still use gloves all the time for manual penetration because I like the way they feel.

Timely indeed!

Amber Rhea — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:14:07 -0800

I loved Chemistry 3. (My review is here.) I want to see the other two Chemistry movies now.

condoms are hot

Elizabeth — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:47:39 -0800

I actually really like to see condoms for vaginal or anal intercourse. (I'm neutral on their presence/absence for oral sex.) My entire experience of heterosexual intercourse for the first 10 years that I was sexually active -- with very few exceptions -- was with condoms. I loved them. When I met my current partner and we decided that we did not need to use condoms at first I was actually grossed out by the ooziness after sex. It also felt like something was missing in the lead up to intercourse. I was surprised by how much I had actually eroticized condom use and how much I'd come to see them as symbol of care and responsibility and preparation -- all of which I find sexy! I would love to see more condoms in porn. It would make the sex feel more "real" to me. A minority opinion I'm sure, but mine all the same.