Sex In The Public Square - SITPS Presents: Sex Work, Trafficking and Human Rights - Comments

Laura Agustin, thank you for dropping by!

Elizabeth — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:02:22 -0700

These issues are such important ones, and ones that are so often oversimplified or distorted, as you point out, by policy makers as well as by the press and by the rescue industry. It is so important that people keep writing and speaking about the real complexity of migration and labor. Your book, Sex at the Margins, is a thoughtful and careful exploration of these issues and I'm so glad to know now about your web site. Thank you for dropping by!

Border Thinking on migration, culture, economy and sex

Laura Agustin — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:18:51 -0700

Those interested in these issues might like to visit my website devoted to going into them in detail and trying to dispel notions propagated by the media and the Rescue Industry.

Laura Agustin's Border Thinking at

http://www.nodo50.org/Laura_Agustin

Better Sources.

Chris — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:13:25 -0700

If you really need advice on this issue, and aren't just trolling for kicks, we're not really the ones to ask on this issue. Far better to check out Scarleteen for smart, honest advice on how to handle adventures into sexuality. Good luck.

Anarchy vs. regulation

BlancheDebris — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:21:58 -0800

I would love to comment at length if I had about 4 hours to spare. So just to highlight a few admittedly "knee-jerk" reactions I'm having to all this ...

kerwynk said:

In fact, there already are a number of instances in which sex workers collectively organize themselves in order to promote their ability to work. I've seen this happening on the street in a number of ways, whether to prevent individuals from underselling a generally agreed upon base fee, or even to simply prevent sex workers from robbing from their clients as it would serve to chase clients away. In order to be effective, these collective mechanisms generally require that information about transgressions be at least somewhat accessible, and that some sort of disciplinary measure be available. In one scene I saw among male street-based workers in San Francisco some years ago, a very fast rumor mill (one that included information from some clients) facilitated informal monitoring while threats of violence and actual violence served as the ultimate sanctions. Not pretty, but the community order was maintained.

For some reason this scenario just makes me feel sick. I wonder why sex workers, who are concerned about violence being committed against them from outside forces, would permit such violence between among themselves. I have no data to back this up, but perhaps some violence against sex workers from outsiders may be provoked by a sex worker robbing a client or a sex worker not performing an act that (allegedly) "everyone else" does. Maybe one sex worker beating up another sex worker who robbed a client would prevent more violence against the group as a whole, so maybe it could be a good thing. I just think this whole "mob justice" approach could be taken too far, that other arbitrary "offenses" against the collective could soon be considered punishable by violence if those at the center of the group deem it such -- personal spats could be trumped up into "s/he undercut me" or "s/he robbed so-n-so" and the alleged offender could be beat up for no reason but rumors. I was a part-time escort for about 3 years and subject to many untrue rumors about myself that spread rapidly through the community, and I more than once feared for my own personal safety. The underground sex trade (along with the black market drug trade) as it stands IS anarchy, and I wasn't comfortable with it.

I hope that decriminalization, or even legalization (i.e. regulation) of prostitution would make all sex workers safer -- from clients and from each other -- by having recourse to a legitimate justice system once their livelihoods are legitimized. If you're raped or robbed, you can press charges. In the current completely unregulated/underground system, you could get someone to hunt down your robber/rapist and beat him or kill him, which may be satisfying in and of itself, but this vigilantism seems like savage "gang wars" to me. But, I guess the only recourse at ALL with the prostitution trade being underground is sex workers coming together themselves, though, again, this seems to occur with message board and other online communities, which often do spill over into real life.

As much as I bitch about competition among escorts, when I first entered the business it was through a very nice lady who introduced me to a tight-knit community of providers and hobbyists who all knew and trusted each other and had private socials that weren't advertised online. This coming together really does work! It's the individual egos that got in the way though. "Why are you seeing MY client? I'll go tell him you're a heroin addict and ruin your reputation" blah blah. The whole anarchy thing sits ill with me too b/c I knew of a fellow provider's boyfriend who was murdered (supposedly through a drug deal), and, though extreme, murder is to be expected among those who deal with problems through violence.

Re. the will of the majority eclipsing the will of the minority/trumping individual rights: That seems to be the essence of democracy, "mob rule." The will of the majority goes. What are the alternatives to democratic process? On one hand you've got totalitarian rule by a power elite who dictates the terms to the entire group, and on the other hand you've got anarchy. I'm really no fan of either, as they both imply, in my opinion, subservience to the will of others under threats. Of course, you have that with democracy too I guess. But it's really the best alternative.

Re. the girls in the SF clubs who were eventually ousted by the minority who wanted to do more -- from what Stacey said, these changes were imposed by management, i.e. a totalitarian rule -- "love it or leave it." So the girls that didn't like it left. What I like about competition among businesses, though, is that ALL clubs aren't owned by the same management. If ALL clubs were owned by the same group, ALL clubs would have the same rules -- all would have the "do more" rule. But, with "free market" competition, the girls could choose to go to another club, owned by different people with different rules.

I know "free market" is a trigger word for many people, but what I mean here is that businesses should have some level of freedom to run their businesses as they see fit. Of COURSE capitalism needs regulating [I'm no fan of anarcho-capitalism]. But see by my example above, if all *club owners* in a city or state decided to collectivize and run all their businesses the same way, say, to force girls to offer sex, the sex workers who DON'T want to offer sex would have no choice but to either offer sex or leave the city/state entirely.

I like the idea of having union shops and having non-union shops, and having the businesses be in competition with each other, while fostering more solidarity between individual sex workers within each organization to make them stronger. (Of course, the management at the club that encouraged prostitution did it to be competitive with other clubs. But should there be a higher regulatory power that says he CAN'T have prostitution in his club? Wouldn't that be sex-negative?)

This seems pretty par for the course in the business world in general -- you've got businesses that compete with each other, and the workers within the business are "team players." I could get into how in most businesses there are hierarchies and how they're not very collective, but you see what I mean, ppl need to work together to make things work on the micro level. Though on the macro level competition is good and gives any worker -- of course including a sex worker -- the choice to work where she wants, for the rates she wants, for the clients she wants, etc.

I am for decrim/legalization b/c I believe that ALL sex workers should have the SAME rights under the law. "The law" sounds authoritarian to many, but, someone needs to maintain order. At the same time, sex workers should have the choice to be in a union, or not. Now, of course, chicken/egg ... what comes first, the unionization or the decriminalization ... I could chase my tail for hours on this one.

That was much longer than I thought it would be! I don't post around here much, so, I hope this is a safe space to post possibly dissenting viewpoints.

What about mental health?

another john — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:25:39 -0800

How many sex workers are really doing therapy? I would say quite a few of the over 30 crowd. God knows it's helped me.

Four years after seperating from my wife and partner of fifteen years I was a sexual wreck. My wife had me convinced that I was undeserving of love and media typecasting reinforced that. When I tried to date I was creating one train wreck after another due to my insecurity. In desperation for contact I started "seeing a pro."

It took several tries to find the right provider(s) but then I discovered something; escorts are people and are MORE appreciative of respectful treatement than civilians. So once I paid the gate fee if I spent a third of my time on the escorts comfort/pleasure I was usually very well rewarded.

Getting past the "drop my pants and yell go" mentality and establishing a sort of mini-date routine has been very rewarding and opened up conversation about what I can do right and what doesn't matter. As I was usually in large skin contact with a pretty girl at the time I was open to suggestions and less likely to balk. With escorts I can practice enjoying the date rather than hitting all the boxes on my checklist. I learn to enjoy the now of the situation and let the future and past go.

All in all I am finding my time with escorts more romantic and rewarding than attempting to date civilians. I don't have to bring a resume, financial prospectus or proof of home ownership and can just enjoy the company. This does not happen in the post-college dating world. I'm just a person who needs some skin time with another person. For an hour we can tell the world to go to hell.

So thanks ladies.

Comments and Dissertation Reference

jill — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:52:12 -0800

Hi all,

I'm Jill McCracken and I wrote my dissertation on the language surrounding street sex work in particular. As Stacey said, I interviewed social workers, police officers, neighborhood association leaders, activists, and sex workers and compared their language and the answers to their questions--looking at how their language relates to the material conditions of their lives. Things that people commonly think of when they think of street sex work--drug use, HIV status, etc. The interesting, frustrating, and challenging thing about language is that people use it out of habit, unquestioning, but/and also to further certain agendas—as in the trafficking, all prostitution is trafficking argument. In my interviews, people said that they talked in certain ways (referring to their use of the word ‘prostitute’ for example), but in actuality, talked in different ways (at least in my interviews/analysis). What was fascinating (at least to me) about my questions was I compared ten years of newspapers along with interviews with public figures and street workers. The language used and the assumptions built into the language used were starkly different. So how do we change this? Education is one—talking about the issues, exploring them, analyzing them—getting people to pay attention to the language they use. It’s kind of like sexist language, I think—when everyone was referred to as “he” we actually picture a “he”—and yet calling attention to this fact along with the reality of doctors, lawyers, sanitation workers, etc., who are women—makes the change happen—slowly, slowly, slowly. Also—paying attention to our legislation and the wording therein is so important—but at times it just seems like the forces are insurmountable. At least it does to me.

As far as my diss goes, the reference is below--you'd have to go to a library and look up proquest dissertations and then search for the title. You should be able to get an electronic copy of the entire thing. But if anyone wants a pdf file, just let me know. Here is the reference:

Listening to the language of sexworkers: An analysis of street sexworker representations and their effects on sexworkers and society
by McCracken, Jill, Ph.D., The University of Arizona, 2007, 267 pages; AAT 3271080

PS, I am kind of annoyed--I have no idea why they made sex worker one word!!

Thank you!

kerwynk — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:21:53 -0800

Huge thanks and kudos to Elizabeth and Chris! I am most appreciative, despite allowing myself to get a bit ruffled (I must learn more of Obama's lingusitic jujitsu!). Ciao out! :) k

Awesome week

Amber Rhea — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:32:23 -0800

Thank you so much for pulling this together, Elizabeth and Chris! It has been wonderful.

I'll try to get a list of resources together, but I might not get time today.

I have LOVED this forum, and I happen to know there are some Very Important People lurking around reading as well... :)

Thank you Elizabeth and Chris!

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:07:12 -0800

This was a great idea. So many great thoughts were shared here, I hope there will be opportunities to collaborate again.

Desiree Alliance upcoming:

Conference in July

We're supporting efforts to send a sex worker contingent to the Int'l Harm Reduction conference in May.

I know there's other stuff, but I'm so consumed with the conference I'm not thinking as clearly as I should be about future projects!!!

A few of us have been bouncing around the idea of holding another Sex Worker Leadership Institute that will focus on tech skills. We haven't done any of the work to secure funding and begin planning yet, so it's on the horizon. The first one was last fall in DC hosted by Different Avenues and other groups in DC. It was a huge success and turned out many new enthusiastic volunteers who've taken their skills to a bunch of different sw organizations. A tech/communications intensive seems to be a natural next step.

We do all of our projects in collaboration with other groups like Best Practices Policy Project , SWOP-USA , and lots of other groups (see the conference link above!) So if you are involved with an organization that is working in areas that intersect with our mission, we'd be interested in finding projects to collaborate on or having your organization become a partner. Individuals who are interested in getting involved are also welcome.

See our website!

Happy International Sex Workers Rights Day!

Oh yes!

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:31:33 -0800

"We don't need to know the minutae of every business in order to feel comfortable with, say, seeing a movie. Or visiting a lawyer."

I totally see where you're coming from now Amanda. No special rules or taxes for sex workers to prove they're worthy. Sex workers work and build a reputation for themselves like any other professional and from what I can tell, the concept of developing 'regulars' is common in nearly every element of the industry, and a benefit for increased safety.

I think sex workers who wish to should be able to provide privacy and confidentiality contracts the same way that therapists and lawyers do, with the same responsibilities to provide such a service. But I don't think any sex worker should be required to do so.

But it's definitely not okay to require us to expose ourselves just because the work involves sex. Which I still think is linked to the original thought of sex work is stigmatized *because* sex is stigmatized, so how can sex workers address that big, huge, giant problem that has existed for thousands of years?

Well... isn't discretion

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:19:07 -0800

Well... isn't discretion sort of a mainstay of the industry? How do sex workers negotiate those boundaries while working for reform?

I totally hear what Amber is saying about the two different perspectives of privacy. I've found that in all situations, personal, private, public, political, etc it is always best to let people tell their own stories.

The angle that I think Chris is addressing is that the way that we/society/whoever responds to public diiscussion of a sexual nature is so often negative- so how are we going to address that fundamental issue?

How do we respond to other people's public statements about sexuality (I'm guessing there's probably a lot of disagreement on this board about that question, but generally speaking...) it seems important on a personal level to be conscious of our own reactions and sensitive to the privacy of others all at the same time. I don't think these concepts are mutually exclusive...

This is a great quote!

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:07:14 -0800

"...they want to connect in all sorts of ways, that, for them are sane and responsible. It may not be a totally safe way to connect, but what way is. And isn't the exploration worth the risks? For me, yes It's allowed me to discover an important aspect of who I am and what I want without shame..."

Thanks so much for sharing your story here Lady J! I think finding space to sommunicate about sexuality is what opens the door to making interactions of all sorts safer. In fact, I think sex workers are uniquely skilled at staying safe while meeting people on the web. Amanda Brooks did a workshop related to safety and privacy on the web at the Desiree Alliance conference in 2007. We could do an entire forum on safe web-dating for all genders!

I'm so happy that you found Sex in the Public Square and that it helped you on your journey! I hope you're having lots of fun!

Exactly...

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:58:33 -0800

"Some people take their daily angst and rage and not so shiny happy feelings and put them into music, or art, or poetry, or sports. Some put it into sex. And in such cases, I think it is far preferable and yep, more healthy that they are doing it in a controlled environment with consenting adult people. They say art imitates life and all, and if porn is considered art, well, life isn't all roses and long walks on the beach and all."

Pleasure or relief or comfort or entertainment or anything else that one seeks out a sex worker for- all those things manifest themselves in a huge variety of ways. It is not as simple as the proper use of condoms. Sex workers are helping people experience life and helping minimize the risks that are potentially involved when novices (of all varieties) play.

Then, as Chris said, there are the elements of pleasure, communication, intimacy that sex workers are uniquely suited to educate people about.

Sex workers rock!!!

This is really interesting..

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:25:00 -0800

Thinking about language and terminology seems to be very critical in discussions of sex work.

Jill McCracken of SWOP-East did her dissertation about rhetoric used in various communities that encounter sex workers.

She interviewed law enforcement, sex workers, activists, social/health workers, etc. She asked them abut terminology, different spaces for different terminology ie: terms a subject would use in private settings vs public settings, etc. It's very interesting. I'm not sure if it is available to the public right now. Ill find out from her...

Another great post kerwink!

Stacey Swimme — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 06:56:00 -0800

I think discussing class in terms of the sex industry and sex worker activism is particularly interesting because sex work is often the reason that people are/not in a particular class. I think for many sex workers, identifying with this class struggle is closely associated with understanding how to get the resources that you need for things such as housing, healthcare, education, etc. and then teaching that to others.

So while we're figuring out how to effectively work together with over-lapping movements such as prison reform or housing action, etc. I think we're also working to help people be as safe as possible and have as much information as possible to have control over their situations and maximize their resources. This is still an avenue that only works for some of course, with deeper issues such as mental/physical health being factors.

But I do think that when we consider poverty in the context of sex worker rights organizing, we have to consider what impacts are being made that are not visibly political, but ultimately have long-term results. I think this rings back to the discussion in Audacia Ray's post about informal networks. I think a lot of the real action that we associate with 'sex worker's rights' organizing is done in spaces that are not visible to the public- or even to some of us.

I think that a lot of people are making thoughtful and challenging comments about race/class in the context of sex work and I'm grateful that there is a lot of work to raise consciousness in this area. Sex workers definitely need more guidance on how to actually contribute to solutions, but I think we should also look deeper at the way that sex worker communities develop and grow over time because I think there is progress being made in less traditional ways and celebrating that will fuel people's enthusiasm to contribute to the more traditional/visible efforts for reform.

Redarding 'decriminalization'- I'm pretty unhappy with that term in general. I don't think it really accurately reflects our goals (not that any single term really will) but I think the word is problematic.

When the un-initiated hear that term, they freak out and think decrim means unrestricted sex-selling everywhere- and what about the children!!! The public really won't get behind that. And the fact is, as you pointed out, many sex workers won't even get behind that.

Phrases that I've been using more are 'alternatives to arrest-based policies' or 'alternatives to criminalization' but those are pretty chunky. I think we'd benefit from re-thinking some of the terminology collectively.

One more point about privilege and activism- Accessibility and communication. I think a major problem that state- and nation-wide groups (opposed to local/city- based) are facing is that long-distance communication methods by default create an exclusive space. We're desperately seeking solutions to this problem and we have a few avenues that we're exploring. But, again, stuff that Audacia mentioned in her post- how do we make sure that we're hearing from people? Even when communication resources are available, such as toll-free conference calls, etc, the nature of organizing by phone can be intimidating, or annoying, or at a bad time- or any number of issues. How much is class a factor in participation and how much of it is culture or inter-personal issues that make communication even more complicated? Is this stuff that can actually be measured as a way to help organizations develop practical solutions?